pure randomness !! The world turtle myths !!!

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pure randomness !! The world turtle myths !!!

Postby ghostsecurity28 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:04 pm

looking at the turtle moves post and an image i added made me wonder did terry read into american indian culture to create Discworld ? I never thought that till I read this page


http://www.sfsenior.com/our_logo.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_d ... th_America

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Last edited by ghostsecurity28 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
And in Heather's case, there were sometimes Third Thoughts and Fourth Thoughts, although these were quite difficult to manage and sometimes led her to walk into doors
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:22 pm

"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
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Postby ghostsecurity28 » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:27 pm

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And in Heather's case, there were sometimes Third Thoughts and Fourth Thoughts, although these were quite difficult to manage and sometimes led her to walk into doors
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Re: pure randomness !!

Postby fergo » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:31 pm

I think it's part of Hindu mythology. Seems to pop up all over the place. Maybe there's some truth in it :wink:.
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:03 pm

I have a couple of Native American design, turtle t-shirts. I'll try and post an image later. :D
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:10 pm

Here you go: :D

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Postby And » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:22 am

Blimey Tony, I bet you did a double - take when you saw those up for sale! How lovely they are, well I like them. I have a genuine Native American dream-catcher over my bed, made by a bloke called Lance Many Crows from Maine.
Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom.
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:23 am

Kewl, we have Beatty Park in Rockford IL, the Sinnisippi Indians made Turtle mounds all along the Rock River. We have, of course, systematically debased and mis-used the original inhabitants, we have but saved a small bit of the original history. :?
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby Tonyblack » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:27 am

And wrote:Blimey Tony, I bet you did a double - take when you saw those up for sale! How lovely they are, well I like them. I have a genuine Native American dream-catcher over my bed, made by a bloke called Lance Many Crows from Maine.
We usually manage a trip to the Tohono O'Odham Reservation in Arizona (the second largest in the US) where they sell amazing t-shirts at really great prices. :wink:
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Postby ghostsecurity28 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:10 am

THEY ARE REALLY GREAT IMAGES TONY :) I HAVE ALWAYS ADMIRED NATIVE AMERICAN ART AND CRAFTS I JUST DIDN'T THINK OF THE CONNECTION TILL YESTERDAY :oops:

Iroquois Creation Myth

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Long before the world was created there was an island, floating in the sky, upon which the Sky People lived. They lived quietly and happily. No one ever died or was born or experienced sadness. However one day one of the Sky Women realized she was going to give birth to twins. She told her husband, who flew into a rage. In the center of the island there was a tree which gave light to the entire island since the sun hadn't been created yet. He tore up this tree, creating a huge hole in the middle of the island. Curiously, the woman peered into the hole. Far below she could see the waters that covered the earth. At that moment her husband pushed her. She fell through the hole, tumbling towards the waters below.

Water animals already existed on the earth, so far below the floating island two birds saw the Sky Woman fall. Just before she reached the waters they caught her on their backs and brought her to the other animals. Determined to help the woman they dove into the water to get mud from the bottom of the seas. One after another the animals tried and failed. Finally, Little Toad tried and when he reappeared his mouth was full of mud. The animals took it and spread it on the back of Big Turtle. The mud began to grow and grow and grow until it became the size of North America.

Then the woman stepped onto the land. She sprinkled dust into the air and created stars. Then she created the moon and sun.

The Sky Woman gave birth to twin sons. She named one Sapling. He grew to be kind and gentle. She named the other Flint and his heart was as cold as his name. They grew quickly and began filling the earth with their creations.

Sapling created what is good. He made animals that are useful to humans. He made rivers that went two ways and into these he put fish without bones. He made plants that people could eat easily. If he was able to do all the work himself there would be no suffering.

Flint destroyed much of Sapling's work and created all that is bad. He made the rivers flow only in one direction. He put bones in fish and thorns on berry bushes. He created winter, but Sapling gave it life so that it could move to give way to Spring. He created monsters which his brother drove beneath the Earth.

Eventually Sapling and Flint decided to fight till one conquered the other. Neither was able to win at first, but finally Flint was beaten. Because he was a god Flint could not die, so he was forced to live on Big Turtle's back. Occasionally his anger is felt in the form of a volcano.

The Iroquois people hold a great respect for all animals. This is mirrored in their creation myth by the role the animals play. Without the animals' help the Sky Woman may have sunk to the bottom of the sea and earth may not have been created.

World-elephant
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Classical Sanskrit literature has references to "world-elephants" as mythical animals supporting the world in Hindu cosmology. This image augments the stock of mythological world-bearers over the earlier World Turtle (Kurmaraja) and World Serpent (Nagaraja or Shesha). Indeed, Wilhelm von Humboldt suggested that the idea of a world-elephant was due to a confusion, caused by the Sanskrit noun Nāga having the dual meaning of "serpent" and "elephant" (named for its serpent-like trunk), thus representing a corrupted account of the world-serpent.[1][2] The various Hindu myths of the world being carried or enclosed by either a tortoise, a serpent or an elephant were referred to by Taylor (1878:339)[5]. In the epics and major Puranas, there "is no myth of a world-upholding elephant",[3] and Al Biruni makes no mention of it, only quoting Brahmagupta who states "the earth is the only low thing".[4]

The elephants are supposed to be guarding (and supporting) the earth at the compass points of the cardinal directions, and they cause earthquakes when shaking their bodies. Thus there are four, eight, or sixteen of them. The Amarakosha (5th century) lists the names of eight male elephants bearing the world (along with eight unnamed female elephants). The names listed are: Airavata, Pundarika, Vamana, Kumunda, Anjana, Pushpa-danta, Sarva-bhauma, Supratika. Four names are given in Ramayana 1.41: Viru-paksha, Maha-padma, Saumanas, Bhadra.[5]

Mahapadma also appears as the name of a treasure-guarding naga (serpent, dragon) in Harivamsa and Vishnu Purana. Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable lists Maha-pudma and Chukwa are names from a "popular rendition of a Hindu myth in which the tortoise Chukwa supports the elephant Maha-pudma, which in turn supports the world".[6] The spelling Mahapudma originates as a misprint of Mahapadma in Sri Aurobindo's 1921 retelling of a story of the Mahabharata, Love and Death.[7]
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And in Heather's case, there were sometimes Third Thoughts and Fourth Thoughts, although these were quite difficult to manage and sometimes led her to walk into doors
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Postby The Mad Collector » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:13 am

Very interesting, I was aware of the mythological background but hadn't actually read up on it. Thanks for posting that.
One of those? Oh I'm sure I have one somewhere..

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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:24 pm

Very interesting :lol: especially the inclusion of the tail-devouring snake from (mostly) Norse myth although that goes back to ancient/Classical time too (see Ourobouros)
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby jonny » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:12 pm

great post :D

thanks ghostsecurity28 :D
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Postby Finomans » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:16 pm

I was a fan of avatar the last airbender tv show and in a couple of episodes this creature called a lion turtle gets mentioned and in one of the last episodes you get to see it and it turns out to be a giant turtle with an island on it's back. perhaps someone got inspired by Discworld?

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Lion_Turtle
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Postby michelanCello » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:31 pm

Finomans wrote:I was a fan of avatar the last airbender tv show and in a couple of episodes this creature called a lion turtle gets mentioned and in one of the last episodes you get to see it and it turns out to be a giant turtle with an island on it's back. perhaps someone got inspired by Discworld?

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Lion_Turtle


LOVE Avatar-The Last Airbender! :D I was addicted to it when it went on the german TV a couple of years ago. Didn't like the movie, though...
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